Plee for Entertain

This is a post asking to bluff/alter the way entertain is mechanically used.

Ever since 2.0 and continuing into 3.0 entertain has been a lack luster skill that asks for too much time and in game money with little pay off for the effort put in.

Currently with meals train coming back into the fold a solo character with Master Agriculture and Culinary can create about 60MP/HR with the proper equipment. Meals can be eaten alone for 40-55 mp when convenient and while moving around talking with others. Entertain only gives back 15mp per target, requires people to be gathered to gain the best value (herding cats), and it is incredibly hard to be convenient with a performace. At most entertain can produce 75mp if the STARS ALIGN and you somehow get 5 people to be in the same area of an entertain for 10 minutes. This still costs a resolve which is a limited resource unlike just MP to produce meals.

On the non mechancial side of things most players tend to really put in an effort to make their performances special and actually entertaining. They try to schedule shows and spend a considerable amount of out of game time investing/practicing this roleplay. They give so much to the atmosphere of the game, but it feels like all this work is disrespected in the mechanical effects. I think the amount of work that people usually put into entertain should be weighed heavier for it’s mechanical rewards.

I suggest 2 simple changes to rebalance entertain.

Make the entertainers kit and the dive bar fully stack. Make it give 20 MP back per target. This bumps up the total producable MP to 100 MP. Seeing as someone making meals can make this kinda MP in about an hour and a half I feel it’s still pretty balanced. We also need to consider entertain cost resolve and meals only cost MP. Over the course of a weekend Meals will always win in MP production.

Similar to how the Master ability of the Chaingun works add the sentence “target may be selected multiple times”. This make it so entertainers don’t have to go around herding cats as much to get more value out of their entertains.

I think these changes would be very simple to impliment because it’s only 1 value change and 1 additional sentences. I hope the ease of these changes helps encourage the implementation.

For those of you with experiance being one of these entertainment characters or those who keep a strong eye out for MP production. I’d love your input.

Math breakdown for meal production

Semi Teamwork Production
Lineages meals cost 30MP worth of material and
15MP to Master Craft from scratch (I got confirmation from someone with a physical print that meals now cost 5MP per level)

In total the cost of creating a Master Meal from scratch is 45MP and 75 Minutes (With Green light pan and Prep Station and a helper which I’ve been able to consistently find) this produces a total of 120 MP. Subtracting production cost the total gain in MP is 75.

75MP/75Minutes = 1MP per Minute = 60 MP per Hour.

Solo Production
In the case that Master meals still cost 30 to craft from scratch and I can’t find someone to help me at the prep station. The cost of Production is 60 MP and 90 Minutes (with green light Frying pan)

60MP/90MP = .66 MP per Minute = 40 MP per hour.

Let’s say a good entertainer has 3 shows per game with my new changed numbers and they get the full value out of their entertain everytime.

100MP × 3 = 300 MP


As with Semi team work but now the meal is crafted with fungel flour, secret ingredient, stir fried, and eaten with a mess kit

It’s alot of math but in total it makes 275MP at the cost of 55MP, 1 Resolve and 90 Minutes of work. That’s about 2.5 MP per Minute or 150 MP per hour.

Semi Team work can make that MP in 5 hours of crafting.

Solo Crafters can make this in 7.5 Hours

BEST CASE SCENARIO can make this in 2 hours.

I need to reillitarate though the importance of the convenience and accesability of meals compared to entertain. Over the course of a 48hour game subtracting 16 hours of sleep time and 4 hours NPC shift we have a total of 28 hours to play the game. Meals will always win in overall mind production. And this is with no out of game time investment to create fun and engaging roleplay unlike entertain. I think entertain should have a place in the MP economy as another form of BURST MP. Currently its burst potential is 15mp per target and that’s just way too little when meals are the much more alluring and convenient option.

Not super sure I agree with the direction you’re proposing. Normally a resolve is worth “more than 20 mind” as near as I can judge from the calls which cost 20 mind or a resolve and produce a slightly longer duration if you spent the resolve.

Entertain takes 10 minutes to turn a resolve into 75 mind. It does it without the massive time investment of farming and cooking.

It may be a little under, but you’re still turning about 20->75.

Time is a really important resource in this game. Compared to the time needed to farm, cook, and eat, 10 minutes is a drop in the bucket. I suspect it might be ok for it to be less mind efficient, since it’s so darn fast.

Compared to the the armor which gives 5 to a group, but costs 20M+1R, this is slower, but more efficient, and seems to split the difference between an Econ power and a combat power.

Net net, seems ballpark right to me :thinking:

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If time spent in the game is valuable, what is the value of the time spend outside of games then to prepare for the show? A large portion of my argument is based on valuing the time players spent outside of game making an entertaining show.

Maybe a compromise would be more efficiency for having a longer show? Like for every additional 20 minutes spent on the performace the targets gain back an additional 5 mind up to a certain limit.

I can agree that maybe the 20 MP is too much, but if nothing else I stand firm by the believe that the line “A target maybe selected multiple times” should be added to the entertain ability.

Not to rain on your calculations too much, but meals are 5+10+15 on the current prints still.

We removed the plus sign that was making the Mind cost per level cumulative.

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Ahhh. Excellent.

Should probably just do a 5/+5/+5 to keep consistency since the items are being upgraded.

Well, if you are upgrading a meal, it becomes 10 more Mind to take it from Basic to Proficient. Or you could just create it at master for 15 Mind.

Sure. But it’s inconsistent with the Artisan prints and will lead to confusion as to why some multi level prints read in different ways.

It’s actually a difference in the way the book treats Artisan vs. Culinary.

The book expects Artisan items to be crafted one step at a time, but Culinary, you are expected to pick a level and make it at that level.

Um, hey, this sounds like a huge change to the mechanics of meals that should probably get more attention. Any chance someone can post a picture of a blueprint for a Mind Recovery Meal here, so the Culinary types that still only have LIT access will know this awesome new ruling about the cost of mind meals?

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Also, is that the case for all meals or just Recovery Meals?

1000% This needs to be more widely visible

We’re starting up some cooking things in my crew, and didn’t notice this change. Our math was based on 5/15/30 mind costs to cook

As per the last Database update for the drive files,

using Ampheta Recovery Meal blueprint as the example:
It states the mind cost: B: 5, P: 10: M: 15.

Older versions of the blueprint use to say, B: 5 , P: Mind: +10, M: 15

I believe it is stating that the meal expenditures are just 5/10/15 and doesn’t add when you are going from zero to P or zero to M. If this was an ongoing update, I don’t believe it was added to the changes.

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